As far as interesting things in today's lecture went, I was a little confused about the comparison between Euclidean geometry, Cartesian geometry, and editing on 12 frames. I understood where Raph was coming from one he explained it a little more, but it was still an obscure example from my point of view. He talked about how Descartes version of geometry invoking a sense of individualism in people based on the individualism it gave to points. I was slightly confused by this as well, I have read the article Descartes wrote where he depicted "I Think therefor, I am" and I dont remember seeing anything about geometry in the article.
It was an interesting class, and I liked having more of a philosophical conversation, I guess I was just a little confused over all of it by the end of the class...
I have to admit there was a point in todays lecture where I became a bit lost with all the quickly changing definitions of 15 different terms. I see what Raphael was trying to say about what exactly a narrative is. I actually had a similar thought about it last night with the written narrative part. I was reading a book and I couldn't help but try and visualize the story in my head. At the same time I was thinking of how I would deliver certain things in a film version. I think a written narrative is more powerful in that sense compared to a visual narrative. I also think a written narrative is a lot more interpretive because there is no actual visual element being shown. I liked how we talked about how everyone will gather a different perception from a vague phrase, like "A stranger walks into a room" ...everyone will have a different idea of that scene in their head. I believe it is true that in human nature we tend to immediately ascribe meaning to anything we see, which is kind of an unseen interesting concept.
I thought today's discussion went very well, and It think that people brought a lot of interesting ideas to the table. I had never before seen geometry as anything philosophical, and it was something fresh and new for me to think about. The more I have been thinking about it, most things in the world can be broken down into Euclidian geometry, including music, social interaction, as well as the narratives we were talking about in class.
As far as the 12 frame project is concerned, I am very excited to get out and see what type of results I can get. I think that with a liberal interpretation of the project, the options are just about boundless, and there are bound to be some very aesthetically invigorating results.
Ok, so here is my interpretation of how written word can be more open than time-based media: With written word, imagination interprets, constructs, and produces what is trying to be conveyed through the words Time-based media funnels the viewer into a particular area because the creator controls/limits what is shown and interpreted visually
However, like Raph said, the opposite can hold true: written word CAN be limiting and the visual more open. I guess it all depends on the choices the artist/writer makes in the development of the piece. That said, I think that the 3600 project was more open in its interpretation than say the next project (12 frames) will be; which, to be honest, is important in exploring the varied methods and styles of representation.
For once we didn't really have difficulties with the video chat like we did last year. I think Raph is right that Lord Hall is possessed. Anyway besides the fact that I got ripped on for not posting notes on time and being caught drooling (?) the class went really well.
I wasn't bored with class whatsoever, I was just a little confused like Matt was to what the definition of a narrative is. People were spitting out what they thought it was and I just got really confused as to what to believe and what not to believe. I believe that a narrative is as simple as something that has a story with a beginning, middle, and end. It doesn't matter what it is about or how long it is, it just has to have a story that is interesting enough to catch the attention of the viewer. Also I believe that the viewer should be a big part of it like Raph was saying. The more mystery you put into the narrative, the more interesting it will be for the viewer. I am really excited for this project, I just need to get a grasp on what I want to do for it. I think a lot of great ideas and projects will come out of this and I am looking forward to seeing all of them soon.
Todays class was interesting. Especially the part where we attempted to fit everyone on the same side of the room. Aside from that I think that the most interesting that that came up was when we were speaking of Descartes. "I think therefore I am" is a very famous quote by him and I thought it was interesting how Raph chose to relate it to what we are currently doing in out class. I actually think that he did that with Descartes in 204 as well but I don't exactly remember what else he used it for. Another thing I found interesting was the relation of point, line, plain, and form. I feel like that was something that worked very well in helping understand the edit on 12 frames project.
Response to Rob:
I agree that the comparison between Euclidean and Cartesian geometry was confusing at first. Simply due to the fact that I really didn't have an idea what either were. And actually at this point I'm still not sure. But I feel like it was the point, line, and so on that was most easily comparable to the edit on 12 frames project.
I was glad that my stint as a math major finally came in useful, even if it was just to try and remember the difference between Euclidean and Cartesian math.
I do agree that in many ways it's easier to be vague, and thus forcing the user to participate, with the written language than time based visual information.
By the same token I think it's important to recognize the written word can be much more concise than visual information. To convey that someone is conflicted, it is relatively simple to do linguistically; "The conflicted stranger walked into the room," whereas it is relatively difficult to portray this visually, and, indeed, actors get paid a lot of money to be able to convey that message.
Today we had a great discussion in class. I feel like a lot of people had some great ideas to bring to the conversation. I feel at times though we were all lost as to where this whole discussion was leading to. I believe we were discussing this to prove that out of sequence clips and frames doesn't necessarily confuse the viewers perception of the narrative.
The discussion on where a narrative originates from was stimulating. A lot of people had different ideas about what it was and where it starts. I firmly believe a narrative originates from a single frame or picture. Others expressed that they felt it started later in the progression to a full form. We later determined that the narration can be found throughout the entire film making process.
After doing some reasearch on Jorgen Leth, I found out that he challeged Lars Von Trier to try and remake the same short film several times using 5 Obstructions, one of which being editing in 12 frames cuts. When I read this I couldn't help but to compare it how Raph is challenging us to complete the same project. I just thought that was interesting.
In Response to John Mondor: It was very interesting to start thinking outside the box and learn new stuff that at first doesn't appear to relate to anything. I feel that as the class went on, the point of the geometry lecture became clearer and clearer, and I agree that it can also be related to many other aspects of life as well.
I was very glad to see that our class had such an easy time having discussions in class. Even though a few people always seemed to be raising their hands a lot of others were also were able to join in when provoked or struck with a good idea.
My favorite part of the discussion had to be when we talked about narative and still images. I like to think of it when a person sees a picture of a dog it will bring on different emotions depending on the person. For example my dad was bit by a dog when he was a mail carrier so it might cause him to feel fear, or someone else who just had their pet die might feel sadness. Everyone will react different because their own lives, and experiences are different.
Todays class was primarily discussion while stuffed into a little row of seats. Certainly a fire-hazard. We covered a range of subjects, from euclidean geometry to the value of frame of reference in conveying a narrative. Few hiccups at the start of the class, but once it got rolling it continued right up until the end.
I can't say I'm particularly thrilled to be back to the year-beginning semi related philosophical discussions that we had in 204, but I suppose thats a matter more of personal preference. The subjects weren't particularly complicated, but it's often difficult to find exactly what Raph is driving us to realize or discover. I guess I just prefer to work with my hands.
Awesome class today. I could give 2 shits whether or not my teacher is in class so long as I learn something. No I don't feel that the New Media department should teach us the computer software that we use. I don however expect to learn something if I am going to spend the money that I do for this education. I will say that todays lecture and more of a conversation amoungst the class was benificial to everyone and I believe everyone learned something. I hope that we can do more of these types of lectures and less looking at crap on the internet entitled New Media. Today I learned more about narrative then I have learned in my entire life in English classes.
i liked how a couple things were brought up in class today. I took a movie crit and theory class that time after time brought up the use of mis en cin, and i was very suprised to hear it today. i guess i just hadn't realized how widely it was used, outside of a hollywood type production. Aside from that, the comparison to what we're doing to euclidean and cartisian geometry threw me for a loop. Definately didn't expect to make as much sense as it did, but it was definately more clear once we got started on it than when it was brought up. Trier and Jorgen's movie also piqued my interest and i intend on looking into finding "the 5 obstructions" when i get the chance.
I felt like I heard Raphael's lecture on Euclid before today. It must have been from a past class I had with him. Still it never gets old because the theories of aesthetics hold true through all art. You can apply an idea to anything you want and I think the difference in each form is what is interesting. I really enjoyed how Leth took the obstructions and used them to his advantages. In past classes I have had complete freedom in assignments and I found it took longer to make an interesting piece and being given a set of rules to over come. This 12 frame edit project should be an experience worth while and hopefully a pleasant outcome.
As far as interesting things in today's lecture went, I was a little confused about the comparison between Euclidean geometry, Cartesian geometry, and editing on 12 frames. I understood where Raph was coming from one he explained it a little more, but it was still an obscure example from my point of view.
ReplyDeleteHe talked about how Descartes version of geometry invoking a sense of individualism in people based on the individualism it gave to points. I was slightly confused by this as well, I have read the article Descartes wrote where he depicted "I Think therefor, I am" and I dont remember seeing anything about geometry in the article.
It was an interesting class, and I liked having more of a philosophical conversation, I guess I was just a little confused over all of it by the end of the class...
I have to admit there was a point in todays lecture where I became a bit lost with all the quickly changing definitions of 15 different terms. I see what Raphael was trying to say about what exactly a narrative is. I actually had a similar thought about it last night with the written narrative part. I was reading a book and I couldn't help but try and visualize the story in my head. At the same time I was thinking of how I would deliver certain things in a film version. I think a written narrative is more powerful in that sense compared to a visual narrative. I also think a written narrative is a lot more interpretive because there is no actual visual element being shown. I liked how we talked about how everyone will gather a different perception from a vague phrase, like "A stranger walks into a room" ...everyone will have a different idea of that scene in their head. I believe it is true that in human nature we tend to immediately ascribe meaning to anything we see, which is kind of an unseen interesting concept.
ReplyDeleteI thought today's discussion went very well, and It think that people brought a lot of interesting ideas to the table. I had never before seen geometry as anything philosophical, and it was something fresh and new for me to think about. The more I have been thinking about it, most things in the world can be broken down into Euclidian geometry, including music, social interaction, as well as the narratives we were talking about in class.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the 12 frame project is concerned, I am very excited to get out and see what type of results I can get. I think that with a liberal interpretation of the project, the options are just about boundless, and there are bound to be some very aesthetically invigorating results.
Ok, so here is my interpretation of how written word can be more open than time-based media:
ReplyDeleteWith written word, imagination interprets, constructs, and produces what is trying to be conveyed through the words
Time-based media funnels the viewer into a particular area because the creator controls/limits what is shown and interpreted visually
However, like Raph said, the opposite can hold true: written word CAN be limiting and the visual more open. I guess it all depends on the choices the artist/writer makes in the development of the piece. That said, I think that the 3600 project was more open in its interpretation than say the next project (12 frames) will be; which, to be honest, is important in exploring the varied methods and styles of representation.
For once we didn't really have difficulties with the video chat like we did last year. I think Raph is right that Lord Hall is possessed. Anyway besides the fact that I got ripped on for not posting notes on time and being caught drooling (?) the class went really well.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't bored with class whatsoever, I was just a little confused like Matt was to what the definition of a narrative is. People were spitting out what they thought it was and I just got really confused as to what to believe and what not to believe. I believe that a narrative is as simple as something that has a story with a beginning, middle, and end. It doesn't matter what it is about or how long it is, it just has to have a story that is interesting enough to catch the attention of the viewer. Also I believe that the viewer should be a big part of it like Raph was saying. The more mystery you put into the narrative, the more interesting it will be for the viewer. I am really excited for this project, I just need to get a grasp on what I want to do for it. I think a lot of great ideas and projects will come out of this and I am looking forward to seeing all of them soon.
Todays class was interesting. Especially the part where we attempted to fit everyone on the same side of the room. Aside from that I think that the most interesting that that came up was when we were speaking of Descartes. "I think therefore I am" is a very famous quote by him and I thought it was interesting how Raph chose to relate it to what we are currently doing in out class. I actually think that he did that with Descartes in 204 as well but I don't exactly remember what else he used it for. Another thing I found interesting was the relation of point, line, plain, and form. I feel like that was something that worked very well in helping understand the edit on 12 frames project.
ReplyDeleteResponse to Rob:
I agree that the comparison between Euclidean and Cartesian geometry was confusing at first. Simply due to the fact that I really didn't have an idea what either were. And actually at this point I'm still not sure. But I feel like it was the point, line, and so on that was most easily comparable to the edit on 12 frames project.
I was glad that my stint as a math major finally came in useful, even if it was just to try and remember the difference between Euclidean and Cartesian math.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that in many ways it's easier to be vague, and thus forcing the user to participate, with the written language than time based visual information.
By the same token I think it's important to recognize the written word can be much more concise than visual information. To convey that someone is conflicted, it is relatively simple to do linguistically; "The conflicted stranger walked into the room," whereas it is relatively difficult to portray this visually, and, indeed, actors get paid a lot of money to be able to convey that message.
Today we had a great discussion in class. I feel like a lot of people had some great ideas to bring to the conversation. I feel at times though we were all lost as to where this whole discussion was leading to. I believe we were discussing this to prove that out of sequence clips and frames doesn't necessarily confuse the viewers perception of the narrative.
ReplyDeleteThe discussion on where a narrative originates from was stimulating. A lot of people had different ideas about what it was and where it starts. I firmly believe a narrative originates from a single frame or picture. Others expressed that they felt it started later in the progression to a full form. We later determined that the narration can be found throughout the entire film making process.
After doing some reasearch on Jorgen Leth, I found out that he challeged Lars Von Trier to try and remake the same short film several times using 5 Obstructions, one of which being editing in 12 frames cuts. When I read this I couldn't help but to compare it how Raph is challenging us to complete the same project. I just thought that was interesting.
ReplyDeleteIn Response to John Mondor: It was very interesting to start thinking outside the box and learn new stuff that at first doesn't appear to relate to anything. I feel that as the class went on, the point of the geometry lecture became clearer and clearer, and I agree that it can also be related to many other aspects of life as well.
I was very glad to see that our class had such an easy time having discussions in class. Even though a few people always seemed to be raising their hands a lot of others were also were able to join in when provoked or struck with a good idea.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite part of the discussion had to be when we talked about narative and still images. I like to think of it when a person sees a picture of a dog it will bring on different emotions depending on the person. For example my dad was bit by a dog when he was a mail carrier so it might cause him to feel fear, or someone else who just had their pet die might feel sadness. Everyone will react different because their own lives, and experiences are different.
Todays class was primarily discussion while stuffed into a little row of seats. Certainly a fire-hazard. We covered a range of subjects, from euclidean geometry to the value of frame of reference in conveying a narrative. Few hiccups at the start of the class, but once it got rolling it continued right up until the end.
ReplyDeleteI can't say I'm particularly thrilled to be back to the year-beginning semi related philosophical discussions that we had in 204, but I suppose thats a matter more of personal preference. The subjects weren't particularly complicated, but it's often difficult to find exactly what Raph is driving us to realize or discover. I guess I just prefer to work with my hands.
Awesome class today. I could give 2 shits whether or not my teacher is in class so long as I learn something. No I don't feel that the New Media department should teach us the computer software that we use. I don however expect to learn something if I am going to spend the money that I do for this education. I will say that todays lecture and more of a conversation amoungst the class was benificial to everyone and I believe everyone learned something. I hope that we can do more of these types of lectures and less looking at crap on the internet entitled New Media. Today I learned more about narrative then I have learned in my entire life in English classes.
ReplyDeletei liked how a couple things were brought up in class today. I took a movie crit and theory class that time after time brought up the use of mis en cin, and i was very suprised to hear it today. i guess i just hadn't realized how widely it was used, outside of a hollywood type production. Aside from that, the comparison to what we're doing to euclidean and cartisian geometry threw me for a loop. Definately didn't expect to make as much sense as it did, but it was definately more clear once we got started on it than when it was brought up. Trier and Jorgen's movie also piqued my interest and i intend on looking into finding "the 5 obstructions" when i get the chance.
ReplyDeleteI felt like I heard Raphael's lecture on Euclid before today. It must have been from a past class I had with him. Still it never gets old because the theories of aesthetics hold true through all art. You can apply an idea to anything you want and I think the difference in each form is what is interesting. I really enjoyed how Leth took the obstructions and used them to his advantages. In past classes I have had complete freedom in assignments and I found it took longer to make an interesting piece and being given a set of rules to over come. This 12 frame edit project should be an experience worth while and hopefully a pleasant outcome.
ReplyDelete